Friday, December 30, 2022
Calling Evil Good, and Good Evil
Wednesday, December 28, 2022
Thoughts on Helaman 4
Sunday, December 25, 2022
Faithful Questions from an LDS Friend
Faithful Questions and Answers:
I had an LDS friend reach out to me recently with some questions. This happens often but sometimes I’m more willing to respond because I can sense they really are searching for answers to their questions.
I believe Joseph Smith was a good example of what it means to really be looking for an answer. He said, “My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join” (RE JSH 1:5; JSH 1:3). When he went to the Lord, he asked which church was right that he might know which to join. This implies his willingness to act on the answer. He wasn’t content to just get an answer without any intent to act on the answer.
I’ve asked for his permission to share this and he was happy for me to do so. After every question from him, I’ll paste my response. This was just a quick response. I could follow this blog post up with further resources but this is enough to get one started:
The polygamy issue is rather fascinating. Given the church has long said that JS practiced polygamy, I hadn't ever heard that he didn't. I do see the statements you have posted stating that he did not. I found that rather interesting. Given his statements against it, he would have had to have said somewhere else that he had changed his mind or given a reason for doing one thing and saying another. Given that, have you or someone else disproven the claims that he did? There are obviously quite a few claims of him doing it from the church and those outside of it. Has someone gone through each individual person and disproven that he was ever married to them? I would be curious if that has been done, or if it's just based on statements of him condemning it. Did Emma ever acknowledge that he did or did not?
Here are some resources and sources but I’d add that an in depth study of the Temple Lot case, where the judge was determining which church should have property rights to the Independence, MO temple lot, is very helpful. The judge was determining if the Brigham group (LDS), Hedrikites (or something like that) or RLDS should have rights to the property. The judge's thought was the Book of Mormon would establish the teachings of Joseph Smith and then he could evaluate the church's claiming to be from Joseph. Whichever was teaching and practicing according to the book would be the church most in line with the church Joseph left behind and he could award them the temple lot in Independence, MO. The judge determined that the LDS group was NOT teaching according to the Book of Mormon. One reason was because the Book of Mormon preaches against polygamy (3x). The LDS group was led by Brigham at the time and so Brigham gathered many affidavits from women claiming to have been Joseph's wives. These were gathered decades after Joseph's death for the purpose of proving the LDS church in Utah, led by Brigham, was the church Joseph started. The RLDS were ultimately given the property, as the judge determined their church teachings were closest to what Joseph had taught.
Here are some references as answers to your question regarding polygamy:
These first two resources are phenomenal. I didn’t know about them when I first started out on my journey reevaluating polygamy:
https://bilbaochristian.blogspot.com/2020/02/polygamy-plural-marriage-and-spiritual.html?m=1
If the LDS church was astray from the time of his death, do you believe the FLDS was initially the right church afterward or was there never any proper succession?
I believe the fullness was already taken when Joseph was on the earth as discussed in D&C 124. Here is a video and link to a blog that may help. I know the title is abrasive but hear it out:
https://seekingfurther.blogspot.com/2017/04/did-lord-lie-to-saints-in-nauvoo.html
A study of the gentiles and their prophesied falling away is important too. Here are a couple blog posts of some scriptures to get you started on that:
https://bilbaochristian.blogspot.com/2020/12/gentile-apostasy.html
https://bilbaochristian.blogspot.com/search?q=fulness+of+the+gospel
What is supposed to happen now for the restoration? If Joseph was prophesied to bring about the restoration, what is supposed to happen if the church has gone astray? Is there supposed to be a new prophet or will things be restored when Christ returns?
An Elias will come, much like Joseph Smith, to dispense greater light and truth. That’s what a dispensation is, a time when the Lord reveals his true gospel to a servant commanded to share with the people. Every time a dispensation begins with a prophet hearing from the Lord to share the original gospel, that group has fallen into apostasy and then another servant/prophet is called upon to “dispense” light and truth again. Ie: Moses, John the Baptist and Jesus, Joseph Smith, and now. Right now my thinking is John the Beloved may be working closely with a servant. We can discuss who that servant may be later. After I had posted the blogs about the Restoration of All Things, I came across these 10 talks. The author has been slammed by the LDS church and so I was very hesitant to listen to what he had to say. Because of what I was taken through during my disfellowshipment, I realized the LDS church leadership doesn’t hesitate to lie about individuals to keep others from listening to them. So, I decided to listen and see what he had to say, from the horses mouth, so to speak. I think he does a great job in explaining what the gospel was Joseph was called upon by God to share and where the LDS church is today. I’d love to discuss your reaction to these talks: https://www.thetentalks.com
http://bilbaochristian.blogspot.com/2016/12/elias-forerunner-end-time-servant.html
Let’s discuss this more over the phone.
Is everything that has been done in the temples been for naught? Would it all have to be redone?
Still studying temples and exactly what the Lord feels about them. I think the Old Testament temple and how Jesus reacted there is important to consider. Jesus’ tabernacle was his body. We are to prepare our tabernacles to receive the presence of the Lord in the flesh, in our tabernacles.
How do you deal with baptizing and such when it comes to authority? Did you and your family members all get re-baptized when you were out of the church? Sorry if that is too personal, just curious. : )
Not too personal. I’m totally open. Much like Alma and Helam in the waters of Mormon, is how we received authority. Yes, a couple sons and myself have been rebaptized. Many early saints were baptized over and over even for healing. Lots in church history had multiple baptisms for themselves. Today the church frowns upon the practice.
Here is a great talk on authority. I’ll tell you who the author is at the end. See what you think. I’d love to discuss:
What do you do now as a primary mission of spreading the gospel? Do you focus on current members or just learning.
I do focus on learning and sharing. That is why I have my videos and blog. I feel the LDS community needs to know the LDS church has strayed from Joseph’s original intent and message, even God’s original intent trough Joseph. They are even fighting against the teachings of the Book of Mormon. John the Baptist and Jesus told the Pharisees they had strayed from the gospel Moses restored. I’m not them but I feel the need to share that there is a sickness so others will look for a cure. I also want to share the Lord’s perspective on being redeemed from the fall and entering his presence or rest. I have several things about that. Here is one:
Here is a video I did on the apostasy. A little blunt but I think it’s important to get it out there and let people decide for themselves:
I too am very disturbed (he shared some concerns he had with the stance of the church on some recent issues), well actually it is validating, to see the church’s stance on:
the poke, our associations with the UN and other globalist groups, the 2A decision…here are a couple things that shed light on fruits of LDS church. By their fruits ye shall know them:
This:
Thank you,
Greg Hymas
Jesus Christ, the True Light of the World
Thoughts on Helaman 3:9-21
In the last post I shared some scriptures and thoughts about the holy order and how the Lord chooses his servants. I won’t spend time on that here, but remember how important that holy order is and tie it in to the portion we are discussing here.
“…And now I would that ye should know that even since the days of Abraham there have been many prophets that have testified these things; yea, behold, the prophet Zenos did testify boldly, for the which he was slain, and behold, also Zenoch, and also Ezaias, and also Isaiah, and Jeremiah, Jeremiah being that same prophet who testified of the destruction of Jerusalem — and now, we know that Jerusalem was destroyed according to the words of Jeremiah — oh then why not the Son of God come according to his prophecy?
[Prophets have been and will continue to be persecuted for what they share. It’s not likely they will be throwing out first pitches at Major League Baseball games or having churchwide birthday parties for them. Most don’t want to receive the message of a true prophet to repent and return to the Lord. In our world they call you contentious or negative when you suggest our lives need reforming into the image of God. It’s not a popular message. It’s much more popular to say the same things other churches are saying, acceptable suggestions like: be kind and loving, be tolerant. Give grace to one another. Those can be difficult things to do but Helaman and the prophets above were calling out the whole corruptness of the society and the twisting of laws etc. Those sayings are easy to shut down because the masses either don’t care, are naive, or have partaken of the spoils of Babylon and are content with bread on the table and football on the big screen]. ]
And now will ye dispute that Jerusalem was not destroyed? Will ye say that the sons of Zedekiah were not slain, all except it were Muloch? Yea, and do ye not behold that the seed of Zedekiah are with us and they were driven out of the land of Jerusalem? But behold, this is not all. Our father Lehi was driven out of Jerusalem because he testified of these things. Nephi also testified of these things, and also almost all of our fathers [the fathers of the holy order], even down to this time; yea, they have testified of the coming of Christ, and have looked forward and have rejoiced in his day which is to come. And behold, he is God, and he is with them, and he did manifest [the verb manifestar in spanish is to show] himself unto them, that they were redeemed by him [follows the pattern laid out by Moroni in the Book of Ether, ‘...the Lord shewed himself unto him and said, Because thou knowest these things, ye are redeemed from the Fall. Therefore, ye are brought back into my presence; therefore I shew myself unto you’ (RE Ether 1:13; Ether 3:13-16).]; and they gave unto him glory because of that which is to come.
And now, seeing ye know these things and cannot deny them, except ye shall lie, therefore in this ye have sinned, for ye have rejected all these things, notwithstanding so many evidences which ye have received. [so many evidences have been brought to light but the majority of people will not hear, feel or see what is happening to them individually and as a society.] Yea, even ye have received all things, both things in heaven and all things which are in earth, as a witness that they are true. But behold, ye have rejected the truth and rebelled against your holy God [Rejecting truth is the same as rejecting god for he is the truth]. And even at this time, instead of laying up for yourselves treasures in Heaven, where nothing doth corrupt and where nothing can come which is unclean, ye are heaping up for yourselves wrath against the day of judgment. Yea, even at this time ye are ripening because of your murders, and your fornication, and wickedness, for everlasting destruction [we have shared the secret societies and gadiantons in our day and how they are murdering children, others and fornicating and participating in all manner of wickedness]. Yea, and except ye repent, it will come unto you soon; yea, behold, it is now even at your doors. Yea, go ye in unto the judgment seat and search; and behold, your judge is murdered, and he lieth in his blood, and he hath been murdered by his brother who seeketh to sit in the judgment seat. And behold, they both belong to your secret band whose author is Gaddianton and the Evil One who seeketh to destroy the souls of men” (RE Helaman 3:9-10; Hel. 8:12-28). [Bush and Kerry both belonging to Skull and Bones Secret Society is an example of these gadiantons lusting for power but appearing to oppose one another. All sorts of mischief going on behind the facade of the media https://youtu.be/xSGYJlR2qgc ].
Behold, now it came to pass that when Nephi had spoken these words, certain men who were among them ran to the judgment seat, yea, even there were five who went. And they said among themselves as they went, Behold, now we will know of a surety whether this man be a prophet, and God hath commanded him to prophesy such marvelous things unto us. Behold, we do not believe that he hath, yea, we do not believe that he is a prophet; nevertheless, if this thing which he has said concerning the chief judge be true, that he be dead, then will we believe that the other words which he has spoken are true. And it came to pass that they ran in their might and came in unto the judgment seat; and behold, the chief judge had fallen to the earth and did lie in his blood. And now behold, when they saw this, they were astonished exceedingly, insomuch that they fell to the earth, for they had not believed the words which Nephi had spoken concerning the chief judge. But now when they saw, they believed, and fear came upon them lest all the judgments which Nephi had spoken should come upon the people. Therefore, they did quake and had fallen to the earth.
Now immediately when the judge had been murdered, he being stabbed by his brother, by a garb of secrecy, and he fled, and the servants ran and told the people, raising the cry of murder among them. And behold, the people did gather themselves together unto the place of the judgment seat, and behold, to their astonishment they saw those five men who had fallen to the earth. And now behold, the people knew nothing concerning the multitude which had gathered together at the garden of Nephi, therefore they said among themselves, These men are they who have murdered the judge, and God has smitten them that they could not flee from us.
And it came to pass that they laid hold on them, and bound them, and cast them into prison. And there was a proclamation sent abroad that the judge was slain, and that the murderers had been taken and was cast into prison. And it came to pass that on the morrow the people did assemble themselves together to mourn and to fast at the burial of the great and chief judge who had been slain. And thus were also those judges, who were at the garden of Nephi and heard his words, were also gathered together at the burial.
And it came to pass that they inquired among the people, saying, Where are the five who were sent to inquire concerning the chief judge, whether he was dead? And they answered and said, Concerning the five whom ye say ye have sent, we know not, but there are five who are the murderers whom we have cast into prison. And it came to pass that the judges desired that they should be brought, and they were brought; and behold, they were the five who were sent. And behold, the judges inquired of them to know concerning the matter. And they told them all that they had done, saying, We ran and came to the place of the judgment seat; and when we saw all things even as Nephi had testified, we were astonished, insomuch that we fell to the earth. And when we were recovered from our astonishment, behold, they cast us into prison. Now as for the murder of this man, we know not who has done it; and only this much we know, we ran and came according as ye desired, and behold, he was dead according to the words of Nephi.
And now it came to pass that the judges did expound the matter unto the people, and did cry out against Nephi, saying, Behold, we know that this Nephi must have agreed with someone to slay the judge, and then he might declare it unto us, that he might convert us unto his faith, that he might raise himself to be a great man, chosen of God and a prophet. [the wicked will never receive witnesses of a true messenger or servant. They always find a way to explain it away.] And now behold, we will detect this man, and he shall confess his fault and make known unto us the true murderer of this judge. [the wicked tried to catch Abinadi in a snare while questioning him and they did the same thing to Jesus. By their craft and deceit they seek to catch the righteous in a snare]. And it came to pass that the five were liberated on the day of the burial. Nevertheless, they did rebuke the judges in the words which they had spoken against Nephi, and did contend with them one by one, insomuch that they did confound them.
Nevertheless, they caused that Nephi should be taken, and bound, and brought before the multitude; and they began to question him in divers ways, that they might cross him, [just as they did with Jesus] that they might accuse him to death, saying unto him, Thou art confederate. Who is this man that hath done this murder? Now tell us and acknowledge thy fault; saying, Behold, here is money; and also, we will grant unto thee thy life if thou wilt tell us and acknowledge the agreement which thou hast made with him. But Nephi said unto them, O ye fools, ye uncircumcised of heart, ye blind and ye stiffnecked people, do ye know how long the Lord your God will suffer you that ye shall go on in this your ways of sin? O ye had ought to begin to howl and mourn because of the great destruction at this time which doth await you except ye shall repent. Behold, ye say that I have agreed with a man that he should murder Seezoram, our chief judge. But behold, I say unto you that this is because I have testified unto you, that ye might know concerning this thing, yea, even for a witness unto you that I did know of the wickedness and abominations which are among you. And because I have done this, ye say that I have agreed with a man that he should do this thing. Yea, because I shewed unto you this sign, ye are angry with me and seek to destroy my life.
And now behold, I will shew unto you another sign, and see if ye will in this thing seek to destroy me. [Sometimes the Lord allows his servants to show unto the people a sign that they might believe. Jesus performed miracles in the sight of the people but the wicked never recognized the signs. They prefer darkness rather than light. It’s much more comfortable to stay in the path one is on then to change and be the odd one out.] Behold, I say unto you, go to the house of Seantum, who is the brother of Seezoram, and say unto him, Has Nephi, the pretended prophet who doth prophesy so much evil concerning this people, agreed with thee, in the which ye have murdered Seezoram, who is your brother? And behold, he shall say unto you, Nay. And ye shall say unto him, Have ye murdered your brother? And he shall stand with fear and wist not what to say. And behold, he shall deny unto you, and he shall make as if he were astonished; nevertheless, he shall declare unto you that he is innocent. But behold, ye shall examine him, and ye shall find blood upon the skirts of his cloak. And when ye have seen this, ye shall say, From whence cometh this blood? Do we not know that it is the blood of your brother? And then shall he tremble and shall look pale, even as if death had come upon him. And then shall ye say, Because of this fear and this paleness which has come upon your face, behold, we know that thou art guilty. And then shall greater fear come upon him; and then shall he confess unto you, and deny no more that he has done this murder. And then shall he say unto you that I, Nephi, knew nothing concerning the matter, save it were given unto me by the power of God. And then shall ye know that I am an honest man and that I am sent unto you from God. [How can you refute this when the murderer himself says he has not colluded with Nephi and he must be of god? It’s not that they don’t understand he is honest, but it is what that means, that they must repent as Nephi has commanded them.]
And it came to pass that they went and did even according as Nephi had said unto them. And behold, the words which he had said were true; for according to the words, he did deny, and also according to the words, he did confess. And he was brought to prove that he himself was the very murderer, insomuch that the five were set at liberty, and also was Nephi. And there were some of the Nephites who believed on the words of Nephi; and there were some also who believed because of the testimony of the five, for they had been converted while they were in prison. And now there were some among the people who said that Nephi was a prophet; and there were others who said, Behold, he is a god, for except he was a god, he could not know of all things. For behold, he has told us the thoughts of our hearts, and also has told us things, and even he has brought unto our knowledge the true murderer of our chief judge.
And it came to pass that there arose a division among the people, insomuch that they divided hither and thither and went their ways, leaving Nephi alone as he was standing in the midst of them. [the righteous walk a lonely road. In the end they associate with the righteous but the test seems to include opportunities to stand alone on the side of the Lord, doing his will at the cost of family and friends. Thus the Lord taught, ‘And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life’ (Matthew 19:29).] And it came to pass that Nephi went his way towards his own house, pondering upon the things which the Lord had shewn unto him. And it came to pass as he was thus pondering, being much cast down because of the wickedness of the people of the Nephites, their secret works of darkness, and their murderings, and their plunderings, and all manner of iniquities — and it came to pass as he was thus pondering in his heart, [pondering brings revelation. Taking time to think is a valuable skill. In our world there is a lot of noise some call music, on gadgets and in ears. Easy to be distracted. Even good things can be constantly drowning out time to just think and ponder.] behold, a voice came unto him, saying, Blessed art thou, Nephi, for those things which thou hast done. For I have beheld how thou hast with unwearyingness declared the word which I have given unto thee, unto this people. And thou hast not feared them, and hast not sought thine own life, but hath sought my will and to keep my commandments. And now because thou hast done this with such unwearyingness, behold, I will bless thee for ever. And I will make thee mighty in word and in deed, in faith and in works, yea, even that all things shall be done unto thee according to thy word, for thou shalt not ask that which is contrary to my will. Behold, thou art Nephi, and I am God. Behold, I declare it unto thee in the presence of mine angels that ye shall have power over this people and shall smite the earth with famine, and with pestilence, and destruction, according to the wickedness of this people. Behold, I give unto you power that whatsoever ye shall seal on earth shall be sealed in Heaven, and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven. And thus shall ye have power among this people. And thus, if ye shall say unto this temple, It shall be rent in twain — and it shall be done. And if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou cast down and become smooth — and it shall be done. And behold, if ye shall say that God shall smite this people, it shall come to pass. And now behold, I command you that ye shall go and declare unto this people that thus saith the Lord God, who is the Almighty: Except ye repent, ye shall be smitten, even unto destruction [God trusts Nephi. Nephi is given the sealing power. God does this by his own voice with the angels as witnesses. It seems that anything at a melchizedek priesthood level is done by god himself with his holy angels as witness].
And behold, now it came to pass that when the Lord had spoken these words unto Nephi, he did stop and did not go unto his own house, but did return unto the multitudes who were scattered about upon the face of the land, and began to declare unto them the word of the Lord which had been spoken unto him concerning their destruction if they did not repent. [he stops immediately and declares exactly as the Lord commanded him. Even though he has the sealing power from the mouth of god, he doesn’t go beyond what the Lord has told him to do. God trust him because he trusts god and acts in complete obedience to his will]. Now behold, notwithstanding that great miracle which Nephi had done in telling them concerning the death of the chief judge, they did harden their hearts and did not hearken unto the words of the Lord; therefore, Nephi did declare unto them the word of the Lord, saying, Except ye repent, thus saith the Lord, ye shall be smitten, even unto destruction. And it came to pass that when Nephi had declared unto them the word, behold, they did still harden their hearts, and would not hearken unto his words. Therefore they did revile against him and did seek to lay their hands upon him, that they might cast him into prison. But behold, the power of God was with him and they could not take him to cast him into prison, for he was taken by the spirit and conveyed away out of the midst of them [the same thing happened to Jesus].
And it came to pass that thus he did go forth in the spirit from multitude to multitude, declaring the word of God, even until he had declared it unto them all, or sent it forth among all the people. And it came to pass that they would not hearken unto his words. And there began to be contentions, insomuch that they were divided against themselves, and began to slay one another with the sword [the natural path of wickedness leads to contention and blood shed]. And thus ended the seventy and first year of the reign of the judges over the people of Nephi” (RE Helaman 3:9-21; Helaman 8:12-28, Hel. 9, Hel. 10).