To all my extended family, LDS friends, acquaintances and LDS church leadership including the First Presidency, who excommunicated me. When you excommunicate or ostracize someone from your congregation for apostatizing, you make it your obligation to prove how the individual is in a state of apostasy. That was never done.
I can empathize with those who feel they lack time to research these things. I'm making it easy for you by posting some of the most direct videos and scriptures to help you know if you've judged Joseph's position on plural marriage correctly. In turn, have you judged me justly? If you haven't, I invite you to change, look to God and make it right with me and everyone else you have misjudged.
My witness before God and you is I have shared the Scriptures, Joseph Smith's words and the words of Jesus Christ.
Here are my messages to you in video format. I believe videos are easier to communicate with than writing.
Here are the references I was looking for in my video:
D&C 88:25-33
3 Nephi 26:6-13
Alma 34:30-36
Alma 41-42
Videos, book and blog to simplify your search and give you references to verify:
Book:
https://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Smith-Revealed-Exploring-Alternate/dp/1097872726
Blogs:
https://bilbaochristian.blogspot.com/2020/02/polygamy-plural-marriage-and-spiritual.html
https://bilbaochristian.blogspot.com/2020/05/can-prophet-lead-you-astray-part-2.html
https://bilbaochristian.blogspot.com/2020/03/can-prophet-lead-you-astray-how-do-we.html
Hello Greg,
ReplyDeleteSince this post was written directly to me, seeing that I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and I consider you one of my friends, it seemed like you were inviting a response. And while this post states an accusation instead of a question, there is at least a question in my mind as to whether that accusation has merit. So, as I see it, a public accusation deserves a public defense. I personally feel that some conversations are better to have in private, but I am agreeing to respond in public because it is the forum and method that has been your preference.
If I am understanding correctly, you are struggling with the idea that you were excommunicated for apostasy. It would also seem that there are feelings that such an action against you was unjust. Do I have that correct?
I, of course, was not a part of those proceedings or in any way connected to what happened, and yet I feel it is important to note that what I have seen in the public forum, would constitute apostasy to me. I think it comes down to a fundamental difference in how we understand the term. And even though I think its okay to disagree with definitions, I think it is only just to say that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints remained consistent with how they define apostasy, and therefore, were true to their standards and their stated beliefs.
Therefore, I would argue that they have acted honestly, because they have followed their definition of apostasy and applied it to you. Actually, they would have been untrue to their stated principles if they had not. They also have the advantage of having the proper stewardship to define apostasy, as it relates specifically to the organization the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Your disagreement with them is not on equal footing, because they are responsible for defining the terms by which such principles will be applied within that organization. This is all as it should be. All leaders of all organizations stipulate how they interact within their organization and on what terms. A member of a group does not get to define terms for an organization they merely belong to. Therefore, individuals must expect and allow entities the power to perform their own operations.
Part 1
Religion has long used the word apostasy to describe a phenomenon that exists and occurs in all organizations of every kind. Of course, other organizations use different words, just as religion leans on the word repentance and a business might use the word change. In this case, other organizations use words like terminate, release, part ways with, etc.
ReplyDeleteWhen someone is let go, or fired, from an organization, it can be done for many reasons, just like excommunication. One such reason might be the constant undermining and publicly denouncing of the business or entity by an employee. It would be a very just reason to let someone go, if they were actively undermining the leadership of that organization on a consistent basis. In fact, it would be a shock if they weren't. We would all wonder why that organization was so foolish as to keep a wolf in sheep's clothing among them. This is because, inherently, everyone understands that a house divided cannot stand. Its the same for volunteer organizations, non-profits, or any other community you can think of.
Sports teams are another type of organization that have their own set of terms. They refer to dissenters as cancers to the clubhouse, or say they are destructive in the locker room. These players feel the need to handle grievances in ways that undermine the team, the coaches, and their teammates. Therefore in sports, they get "released", or remain unsigned for such destructive behaviors, if they persist.
Interestingly, all organizations require a method in which they can separate themselves from individuals who become stumbling blocks for the organization as a whole. When you are developing a community, when individuals go outside the prescribed ways of expressing disagreement within that organization, they literally are taking the unity out of community.
Captain Moroni applied these truths in the Book of Mormon. He basically said, we can't have these dissenters fighting us from within, so before we worry about the Lamanites, let's cleanse the inner vessel. Did some of those men claim righteousness? I am sure that is the case. Did some of them attempt to prove their cause? I am sure that is true as well. But ultimately they were justly cut off.
Meanwhile, Alma blotted out names from the church for similar reasons. King Benjamin spent the vast majority of his life staving off false teachers and those who could not appropriately express their grievances within the proper bounds. The list goes on and on. Even Joseph Smith excommunicated people. Lots of them. The same accusations you are making against the current prophet echoes early church history. Many of those who were expelled from the church believed they were right. They spent all their efforts trying to convince people that they were right.
Part 2
Apostasy isn't solely a question of right or wrong, it is also a question of proper timing and proper stewardship. Moses, for instance, had Korah and Dathan and Abiram who argued that the priesthood should be given to all tribes. That sounds like a good argument. Shouldn't the priesthood be given to all of God's children? Ultimately, they may have been right about the principle in theory, but because they did not understand the purposes of God and because they sought authority they did not have, they were justly punished for not adhering to the Lord's prophet. Their "rightness" had no bearing on the outcome of their punishment. There punishment was just, and well deserved, because they did not understand God's purposes and cared more about being right then doing God's will.
ReplyDeleteWhen the church was new, beliefs were fragmented and coming from all kinds of different faith traditions. People believed wild things. And yet the only time they were ever excommunicated for those beliefs was when they actively shared them with others in an attempt to undermine the church. Joseph repeatedly separated false brothers and sisters, and rightfully so. A false brother is one who joins or tries to maintain membership in an organization he has no intention of upholding, following, or sustaining.
Apostasy is nothing less or nothing more than someone who TEACHES PUBLICLY or is actively gaining converts to ideas that are in opposition to a church's core tenets and beliefs or that undermines the organization so that others lose their faith in those core tenets and beliefs. Are they allowed to disagree? Of course! But they must follow the proper stewardships of the priesthood, and not take up false stewardships. Wasn't that Satan's great sin in the garden? He was merely doing that which he saw done in other worlds ... but it wasn't his right! Individuals who do not receive or understand the doctrines of the priesthood are not His, as stated in section 84. They have lost their ability to obey and sustain the Lord's servants and have doubled down by fighting against them. "If ye are not with me, ye are against me."
It seems you understand apostasy differently, but the church is not required to prove your definition of apostasy, because they are the organization in question. Their definition of apostasy will suffice. I've seen you state multiple times that you were excommunicated for believing polygamy didn't happen with Joseph Smith. Well, that does not seem to be true. Certainly your beliefs do not line up with the church on that particular issue, but I know several people who hold the same belief as you, and yet have not been excommunicated. You went a step further. You went public by sharing and evangelizing your belief. This can't be disputed, because ... well ... you did it publicly.
At that moment, you were in apostasy and deserved excommunication. All of us, as your brother and sisters, see such an action as one designed to help you eventually rejoin the faith with a proper framework and understanding of what it means to be a member of the church. I personally would like nothing more than to welcome you back into full fellowship, and everyone I know feels the same way. But the preaching and teaching in opposition to the church was adn continues to be self-evident, and it is a truth that everyone can see, publicly.
Part 3
I had a friend once who I had the pleasure of working with in a business setting for many years. We agreed on many things, but we also had some deep divides in how we approached and viewed the world, and that included how we would run a business. We had great discussions and I often listened to his differing views on business and leadership, while not always agreeing with them after carefully considering them. Occasionally, things got tricky because in the end, it was my and my partners business, and we ultimately didn't see eye to eye on how to run a business, and this same individual felt his ideas should be pushed through even though he didn't have a stewardship to speak of. This individual often focused on what he thought was right, not even realizing or considering the rightful stewardships involved, how the timing and purposes of God could play a factor, and how his own understanding of all matters might be limited. Sometimes he would recognize that he overstepped, but sometimes it would only frustrate him, which would cause him to poison the well, so to speak, by gossiping, spreading partial information, and advocating against the methods of the company, without knowing fully about the things he was speaking. He damaged reputations and smeared company leaders, all while claiming righteous intent, as understood in his mind.
ReplyDeleteThat was a difficult time for our organization. We loved this individual, but he continually and actively fought against the direction we felt the company needed to go. He would complain to others and always felt in the right, even though he wasn't privy to all the information. Ultimately, we helped this friend to realize he did not have stewardship in the organization and that it wasn't right to stay in an organization that he couldn't support in an honorable way. He went his way and has done well for himself and his family, and we were able to get past a difficult time in our company, by not having the dissension and strife constantly undermining our efforts.
But what this really comes down to is this: Are you stating that an organization like the Church should keep such opposing and unsupportive forces within its ranks? Should an organization that is trying to build unity not separate themselves from those who prove stumbling blocks to where they need to go? Should a baseball team keep a discontent in the clubhouse, merely because they want to be there? Should an employee be accepted happily in a business where they do nothing but question the decisions of leaders all day long? How is it, again, that the blotting of names has been turned into a nefarious act? It was a method designed by the Lord to help people reset, repent, and adjust the way they view the world. It gives them a fresh opportunity to reframe and start anew.
As your friend, and as a member of the Church, I hope you know how much we love you and want your family to return to your covenants. You are a valued son of God, and can offer so much to so many people. God bless you all, as you come unto Christ.
One of the best ways to thwart the work of God is to join his work and then move it from its core beliefs. If you will take the time to watch the videos posted, you’ll see clearly what has happened after the days of Joseph. Traditions have carried down through the false leadership until today, people are being excommunicated for believing the word of God in the Book of Mormon and comparing it to current beliefs of the LDS church. Much like the days of Martin Luther, he had no stewardship but felt obligated to try and help the church self correct. His efforts helped some get back to the words of God, yet the church got rid of him to protect the “good name of the church.” He wasn’t perfect but he was part of the great reformation as the Lord shed light on the apostasy that had happened in the Catholic Church. When people couldn’t discern between the church and the gospel, as described in 3 Nephi 27, they couldn’t fathom how Luther would speak out against God’s chosen servants, the leadership of the church. Patterns keep coming about in every generation. If we don’t believe the Book of Mormon’s condemnation of polygamy, how will we ever get back to the true gospel of Jesus Christ. If we don’t admit errors in our LDS history, how will we ever repent? The Joseph Smith Papers have been a great blessing to discovering the truth. Publishing the Bible from Latin into modern tongue was a great blessing for the common person as now they could search the word of God for themselves and compare it to the common practices of the Catholic Church. It helped them decide if they wanted to follow a church or God’s word. Same pattern, new generation.
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